DAOs- The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly!
Shared by ListofDAOs.com · 42d ago · 22 comments

Hello,
Would love to start a conversation on Decentralized Autonomous Organizations. What has been your experience? Are you familiar with them? What are some your interested in?

John

cameroncalder · 34d ago

I've done five unique & comprehensive academic and non-academic projects (dev & research) with DAOs and have interviewed some of the more notable DAO professionals (Grace Rachmany, etc). I don't see DAOs in the same light as others tend too. My first problem is with the definition, these principles are very loose and don't often apply to some of the more notable 'DAO', for example, MakerDAO. Maker - huge balance sheet, great project, not a true DAO. Maker employs 'key-actors' that have more influence over decisions than plain token holders. You could say they were the steering force of the 'DAO'. Complete bottom up management has had its own difficulties well before DAOs came along... communism? DAOs are digging up age old problems in relation to the distribution of influence & power. All my studies have been orchestrated to improve on DAOs & integrate them into business society. I have developed a 'DAO' like SaaS product which I plan to release soon which improves on a lot of these shortcomings. Remember with a 'DAO' the potential is there the implementation is not. Happy to discuss further with anyone, drop me a message!

krupeshdesai · 33d ago

Hi,

I find this very relevant to what I am trying to achieve. DAO from day 1.
Please check https://cheapthrills101.club

I have just on-boarded a pro crypto miner and in-game tokenomics expert to validate and co-author my white paper.
It would be great to connect and review my endeavours with your pro lenses, and explore mutual opportunity.

Reflecting on your analogy on DAO with communism. The more I looked into the decentralisation and distribution of wealth, equality , etc. I realised that, in any system there will be a triangle with less people on top with more stake in the operation and longevity of that particular system. In communism, people in key position in state run institutions and businesses ends up on the top of the hierarchy anyways. On the other hand, from poorest of the poor to the richest of the rich, wakes up and look for more value next morning. In the play-to-earn gaming world, a pro gamer who is spending 25+ hours per week in the game or in the marketplace should have more say & cut% in the roadmap of the game , and the wealth accumulated.

Again, I am still a newbie. I only desire to implement DAO type structure where the NFT holder of my 3,333 first NFT drop can participate in the voting for the roadmap , and then earn from the subsequent NFT drops & future marketplace.

If you see value in my attempt, please reach out. I am based in a small town in NZ.

Thanks

cameroncalder · 33d ago

The most interesting link between DAOs and NFTs (for me) is the potential replacement of the 'traditional' token-vote systems. Linking voting rights to something other than capital definitely has its merits with DAOs. Which, can be done with NFTs. I tend not to get caught up in the 'digital art' way of looking at NFTs and more of the functional value they can bring as a smart contract.

kendsouza · 34d ago

'the potential is there the implementation is not' ..that says it all!.
Yep..the potential is there to go to Mars, terraform it and build a civilization there..but the implementation is not..no matter how much conmen like Elon Musk want you to believe it:)

cameroncalder · 34d ago

The best way to work a DAO is to not get too bogged down trying to be a true 'DAO'. They are principles to work towards not definitions to be limited by. Additionally, not everything even has to be on-chain. Blasphemy, I know, but true.

krupeshdesai · 33d ago

Following this philosophy in my endeavour. What a great conversation to read through for a newbie like me.

krupeshdesai · 33d ago

Landed at a perfect place. DAO from day 1 challenge in my new web3 project. cheapthrills101.club

TrueSPAC03 · 40d ago

They are a useful in respect to jurisdictions that are heavy on regulation, and also very useful in fully allowing a project to attain a DAO status, especially where code could run the entire process. Imagine a Bank without any CEO, not lines, no buildings, yet all your banking products and services are met?

ListofDAOs.com · 40d ago

Hey thanks for the comment! We actually have 2 or 3 DAOs that are looking to start a bank that we listed. One I think is in Brazil as well!

mayurjobanputra · 40d ago

Hey Jon. I'm the founder of daodir.co. Let's chat.

ListofDAOs.com · 40d ago

For sure would love too!

-john-

ListofDAOs.com · 40d ago

Just sent you a DM on Discord

kendsouza · 41d ago

It is just another buzzword on the lines of web3, nft, tokenization etc. There is a high probability most of them are ponzi schemes for now. Anything of value gains wider acceptance over time organically.
The key is value..if you cannot show value or explain it in layman's terms..then it is nothing but BS.

'Hustling' lasts for so long:) .

manojranaweera · 40d ago

I like your sense of humour Ken!

ListofDAOs.com · 41d ago

Hey,
Thanks for the response! Can I see where you are getting your probability numbers from? You had mentioned that "There is a high probability most of them are ponzi schemes for now". Is this based on personal projects you have invested in or seen, news articles, or is this based on numbers where a percentage of projects over the sum have been identified with scams? I for sure think there are "ugly" projects out there as this is one of the words in the title I used, but want to see where this is coming from.

Totally agree with your statement that "Anything of value gains wider acceptance over time organically." Can I ask hypothetically, if a project that has focused on building organic growth ( with 1-on-1 communication) in this space would you support it? Can value be seen in building relationships? Would those projects be seen as "Good"?

Thanks
John

kendsouza · 41d ago

Because I have been around..you know:) From gopher to the mosiac browser..to web1 ..web2 and to the latest web3 fad. I bought bitcoins when it was 30 cents, bought ether when peter theile was all ga ga over it..I bought polygon or matic as it is called now when it was 40 cents..but note it was all speculation and it is paying well.
But it does not mean I believe in the tech.
The foundation of smart contracts is extremely weak..ethereum with 13 transactions per second cannot compete with millions of transactions per second by visa..and the high transactions fees still cannot be resolved by matic or eth 2.0. So the underlying tech is bad and will fail at what it promises..too bad you can't see it. The decentralized crap of web3 is just marketing mumbo jumbo.

A lot of dumb money is invested in it and I can understand the hustling from the millenial grifters..that is why it is nothing but a ponzi scheme to attract more new dumb money. There will be a lot of bag holders in due course:)

Sendoff · 40d ago

Reminds me of the early 2000s (webvan, boo.com & friends) where there is a stack of money chasing the next big thing without a solid foundation. I think there are some potential use cases for the underlying tech but it is a loooong way from ready for market or investment in most cases. But if VC's want to be hustled.....

kendsouza · 40d ago

The immutable concept of blockchain is good and has numerous use cases..but the underlying tech that was formed is flawed, insecure and corrupt. It was supposed to be open..but ironically the guy who made it famous never revealed himself(Satoshi Nakamoto?) or rush of the Silicon Valley folks to a bad implementation (ethereum)..the tech is backwards..they can keep on forking it..(i.e one scam after another) with their dao's , defi's , nft's etc. You can say the tech is similar to the landing page rush of the 2000's..just put up a website with a domain name and folks poured money into it with no underlying foundation or value. The crash is inevitable.

ListofDAOs.com · 40d ago

I hear what you are saying on the tech side. What about the concept side? An analogy to DAOs I use Cooperatives that use the blockchain (both in existence today with use cases). Re: continued forking. Could one argue that these are actually signs of longevity (talking specifically on DAOs)?

In her book Leadership and the New Science Wheatley alludes to Decentralization when U.S. was in Iraq "There is no center of gravity, no leadership, no hierarchy; they are more a constellation than an organization... They have adopted a structure that ensures their longevity (As cited by the times 12/2/05). This example is also given in the Times Best Seller Team of Teams by General McChrystal et al.

John

kendsouza · 40d ago

'Cooperatives that use the blockchain'
Anyone can use anything..does not mean it provides value or it is sustainable.
I could have built my systems around blockchains..for what?? and why?
You can read a lot of crap from books written by folks who make money selling books.

Instead try talking value around the concept and how it is sustainable..and the discussion will make sense instead of blowing wind for the sake of it.

ListofDAOs.com · 41d ago

Thanks, I appreciate the response! It seems like you have a lot of experiences and history in the space for sure. I am interested in the last questions as well. If a project was focused on building organic growth ( with 1-on-1 communication) in this space could it be useful..... Can value be seen in building relationships? Would those projects be seen as "Good"? Would love to hear your thoughts.

John

kendsouza · 41d ago

I am not sure I understand your question..It's like you still want to know if a 'blockchain' solution to visa is any 'good'.
In a world of texting, twittering, facebooking, tindering, pornhubing:) and so on and on..what is the added value of this 'blockchain' solution in building relationships (1 on 1 or otherwise)